The Christian Worldview Explained

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:34 pm
"I believe Christian Apologetics are one of the best, less off-putting means of doing so for a neutral or hostile audience"
Not really sure how you figure that. The whole point of them are to defend the religion against criticism and demonstrate why it's true. Immediately you're taking a defensive and argumentative position by principle, regardless of how civilly you present the points. That's going to make atheists and others actively against Christianity immediately defensive, and alienate more casual/neutral readers who aren't interested in getting into a religion debate. But that's besides the point, my issue was that the thread titling was somewhat deceptive. In a thread ostensibly about educating people on and discussing the Christian worldview, you spend far more time defending Christianity against arguments from atheists than you do actually talking about Christianity(Christian history, The Bible, Christian philosophers, Christianity in culture etc). You should have named the thread "Why Christianity is true" or if you wanna be less on the nose maybe "The case for Christianity" just so people know what they're getting into upon clicking. Not a big deal or anything, but felt worth pointing out anyway.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:44 am
Beelzebub wrote:"I believe Christian Apologetics are one of the best, less off-putting means of doing so for a neutral or hostile audience"
Not really sure how you figure that. The whole point of them are to defend the religion against criticism and demonstrate why it's true. Immediately you're taking a defensive and argumentative position by principle, regardless of how civilly you present the points. That's going to make atheists and others actively against Christianity immediately defensive, and alienate more casual/neutral readers who aren't interested in getting into a religion debate. But that's besides the point, my issue was that the thread titling was somewhat deceptive. In a thread ostensibly about educating people on and discussing the Christian worldview, you spend far more time defending Christianity against arguments from atheists than you do actually talking about Christianity(Christian history, The Bible, Christian philosophers, Christianity in culture etc). You should have named the thread "Why Christianity is true" or if you wanna be less on the nose maybe "The case for Christianity" just so people know what they're getting into upon clicking. Not a big deal or anything, but felt worth pointing out anyway.

Unfortunately, that's unavoidable. Someone will always be offended or defensive when discussing sensitive matters such as this. Perhaps there are Apologists who are off-putting, but Ravi and his team are not among them. They defend the faith yes, but they do so very cordially, being mindful that they're answering a questioner rather than just a question. We might disagree, but that doesn't mean we can't at least have a hearing, no?

A title was something I didn't want to get too hung up on. I felt it would be a bit more gentle to say "The Christian Worldview Explained" rather than "Why Christianity is Right" as if I was boldly charging in for an argument, which I'm not really. I am simply presenting answers to questions from this worldview, answering and discussing matters on Christianity myself if I can, and then letting the reader make up their own minds from there. I wish merely to introduce, not to impose. Do I believe Christianity is the truth? Yes, absolutely, but even the truth becomes ugly if presented disrespectfully. Either way, thank you for your concern.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:07 am
hold on

so titling the thread "Why Christianity is true" isn't "gentle" enough, but making brazen and ridiculous claims like "secularism and atheism led to the holocaust" without even an attempt to justify them is fine? Surely no one could be off-put by that? You can't even hide behind the "well that's just what Christians believe" excuse because there's nothing biblical about that claim. It's just conspiratorial nonsense. It doesn't matter how many ribbons you stick on it, argumenation is still argumentation. Sounds like you're reluctant to call this what it is, you trying to convert people to Christianity. You wouldn't have linked that laundry list of videos attempting to explain away problems with the faith otherwise. Your opening paragraphs would read more like someone seeking discission, and less like someone seeking to preach. I just think people should be forthright with their intentions is all.

Also on the first bit you missed the point. You said apolegetics is the least off-putting method for talking about Christianity to a neutral or hostile audiance, and that's patently untrue to anyone who understands what apologetics actually is and basic human psychology.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:25 am
Beelzebub wrote:hold on

so titling the thread "Why Christianity is true" isn't "gentle" enough, but making brazen and ridiculous claims like "secularism and atheism led to the holocaust" without even an attempt to justify them is fine? Surely no one could be off-put by that? You can't even hide behind the "well that's just what Christians believe" excuse because there's nothing biblical about that claim. It's just conspiratorial nonsense. It doesn't matter how many ribbons you stick on it, argumenation is still argumentation. Sounds like you're reluctant to call this what it is, you trying to convert people to Christianity. You wouldn't have linked that laundry list of videos attempting to explain away problems with the faith otherwise. Your opening paragraphs would read more like someone seeking discission, and less like someone seeking to preach. I just think people should be forthright with their intentions is all.

Also on the first bit you missed the point. You said apolegetics is the least off-putting method for talking about Christianity to a neutral or hostile audiance, and that's patently untrue to anyone who understands what apologetics actually is and basic human psychology.

I didn't pursue that avenue because I realized I had made a blunder and attempted to correct myself, per my response to Fredo. I made an argumentative claim yes, but then I disengaged the topic because it was going down the debate/argument route which I did not intend for this thread.
Being blunt is not my forte, but if you insist so be it: Indeed, I formally invite anyone who does not know Jesus, to approach and invite Him into their lives. But as I mentioned before, I do not intend to impose the matter. If even just one finds Him through this, splendid, all the effort was worth it then.

That's just me then I suppose. When I think “Apologetics” I think of a cordial case being made that engages the intellect and answers deep philosophical questions, rather than just throwing out a bunch of religious jargon. If that's just me misinterpreting the terms, then my apologies. Regardless, I stand by the presentations made by Dr.Zacharias and Professor Lennox as a reliable means of explanation.

Now, do you have something you'd like to discuss that pertains to Christianity? I think we've gone far enough off course.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:04 pm
Not so sure you're minsintepreting the definition so much as misjudging how people tend to react to things. It follows that someone is probably going to be more receptive if they're simply told about Christianity, rather than being told that Christianity is correct and all their beliefs are wrong. People are naturally highly defensive about their worldviews. Of course directly challenging ideas and making bold statements is fine, but if you're going to do that at least frame it that way.

As far as other discussion, I wouldn't really know where to begin. Outside of "humans are moral and they don't need a god to act morally" I literally disagree with every single claim you made, as far as I remember. If you wanna start somewhere, the issue of vicarious redemption always made Chrisianity a non-starter for me. That kind of justice would be inapplicable literally anywhere else, and it seems utterly immoral in that it negates the importance of personal responsibility.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:14 pm
This is basically most cases for religion in a nutshell:

"We just want complete and undisputed world domination! Is that too much to ask? Why are you so intolerant?"

At least, that's Abrahamic religion for you. The likes of Buddhism and Hindu are surprisingly chill, from what I've heard.

Humanity cannot be led by what it is not allowed to question. As the standard of common sense increases, so does the standard of morality, and unquestionable authority can only tie that progress down.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:31 pm
Alright B, lets start there. First I would like to say I appreciate the question, I truly do. It's difficult to gauge how a person feels through some disembodied text on a screen, but for what it's worth, I appreciate you giving me a hearing. Correct me if I misinterpret what you said, but you're basically saying you don't like how it sounds like in Christianity, a person can say “I believe in Jesus, therefore its compulsory Heaven for me”, thus negating personal responsibility. There most certainly is personal responsibility. It takes more than just saying “I'm a Christian, therefore I'm saved by default.” The sincereity of thought and deed is necessary.

If one were to ask me, “What does it mean to be a Christian?” my simplest response would be: “A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ.” If I claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ, then it is my responsibility to represent Him truthfully, and obey what He says. “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless."(James 1:22, 26) If a person claims to be Christian, and yet they're an angry, bitter mess with the condeming attitude of “We're going to Heaven while all those lousy sinners are going to hell”, they are absolutely NOT right with God. “You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.” (Romans 2:1)

I find it fascinating how Jesus was so incredibly merciful and forgiving to all the rejected of society; The poor, the prostitues, the infirm, and how the ONLY people He ever rebuked and spoke to about hell, were the religious hypocrites of His time. They claimed to be of God, but were more concerned with making money than representing love and forgiveness. Jesus Himself made it very clear that those who expect a free-pass into Heaven because they claimed to be Godly, will be sorely disappointed: "Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many wonderful works?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!' Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."(Matthew 7:22-25)

So yes, there is indeed personal responsibility. Love is the fullfillment of the law (Romans 13:10) and we who claim to be of God and truth, must live the message with our lives, rather than just espousing it with our lips. “If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
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