People need to see Religion Differently

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It's a Cat. I Think
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:11 pm
Whitly wrote:
Fredo_Corleone wrote:OP wants us to realize that all religious point at the same fundamental nature.

So he IS preaching Equalism!

In all honesty, it's not really true. Christianity, if I remember correctly, argues that people are born with sin, and that it needs to be expedited from our souls in order to go to Heaven. Judaism argues that people are born without anything other than their animalistic desires, and they need to be retrained through action to become selfless and spiritual. Also, that you don't need to be Jewish to get into Heaven.

So yeah, OP is off here...


That's a poor characterization of Christianity and you fail to consider the potential similarities between animalistic desires and Christian sin. There is a rich tradition in both Judaic and Christian thought that equates original sin and Adam and Eve prior to eating the forbidden fruit as an animal-like state.

You also neglect cosmology and inherent tenets and meanings of both religions.

The fact of the matter is OP is going in a round about and poor way of saying something EVERYONE who thinks about religion intelligently and comparatively believes more or less.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:27 pm
Fredo_Corleone wrote:
Whitly wrote:
Fredo_Corleone wrote:OP wants us to realize that all religious point at the same fundamental nature.

So he IS preaching Equalism!

In all honesty, it's not really true. Christianity, if I remember correctly, argues that people are born with sin, and that it needs to be expedited from our souls in order to go to Heaven. Judaism argues that people are born without anything other than their animalistic desires, and they need to be retrained through action to become selfless and spiritual. Also, that you don't need to be Jewish to get into Heaven.

So yeah, OP is off here...


That's a poor characterization of Christianity and you fail to consider the potential similarities between animalistic desires and Christian sin. There is a rich tradition in both Judaic and Christian thought that equates original sin and Adam and Eve prior to eating the forbidden fruit as an animal-like state.

You also neglect cosmology and inherent tenets and meanings of both religions.

The fact of the matter is OP is going in a round about and poor way of saying something EVERYONE who thinks about religion intelligently and comparatively believes more or less.

So I got Christianity wrong? My bad.

But I DO know that Judaism is openly against the concept of an original sin, as the first sin in Scripture was actually committed by a fruit tree (I'm not kidding, go look it up.) I'm a practicing Jew myself, and I've spent 12 years learning this in school.

I'll agree that the OP poorly phrased his terminology, though...
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It's a Cat. I Think
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:17 pm
Whitly wrote:
Fredo_Corleone wrote:
Whitly wrote:So he IS preaching Equalism!

In all honesty, it's not really true. Christianity, if I remember correctly, argues that people are born with sin, and that it needs to be expedited from our souls in order to go to Heaven. Judaism argues that people are born without anything other than their animalistic desires, and they need to be retrained through action to become selfless and spiritual. Also, that you don't need to be Jewish to get into Heaven.

So yeah, OP is off here...


That's a poor characterization of Christianity and you fail to consider the potential similarities between animalistic desires and Christian sin. There is a rich tradition in both Judaic and Christian thought that equates original sin and Adam and Eve prior to eating the forbidden fruit as an animal-like state.

You also neglect cosmology and inherent tenets and meanings of both religions.

The fact of the matter is OP is going in a round about and poor way of saying something EVERYONE who thinks about religion intelligently and comparatively believes more or less.

So I got Christianity wrong? My bad.

But I DO know that Judaism is openly against the concept of an original sin, as the first sin in Scripture was actually committed by a fruit tree (I'm not kidding, go look it up.) I'm a practicing Jew myself, and I've spent 12 years learning this in school.

I'll agree that the OP poorly phrased his terminology, though...


Similarities =/= the same thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:21 pm
Fredo_Corleone wrote:
Whitly wrote:So I got Christianity wrong? My bad.

But I DO know that Judaism is openly against the concept of an original sin, as the first sin in Scripture was actually committed by a fruit tree (I'm not kidding, go look it up.) I'm a practicing Jew myself, and I've spent 12 years learning this in school.

I'll agree that the OP poorly phrased his terminology, though...


Similarities =/= the same thing.

I know. And I also realize now that I've been misunderstanding what you were saying...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:51 pm
In my honest opinion I truly believe all religions need to be forgotten. Again in my opinion, I believe religion hurts humanity and that it is not needed. Religion (in general) is corrupt, is used as an excuse to kill, and uses to oppress people if they are in the minority.

I understand that people find comfort in the belief of a god, that everything is part of some master plan, and that if they have enough faith they will be able to deal with anything.

I just don't see how a god, or at least a god that takes interest in his people, is possible. You would think after centuries of people taking his name in vain (doesn't matter which religion) he/she/it would clarify what it wanted from people. But the best we have are books and scrolls written centuries ago by men, whose job it was to sell the religion (and I don't mean necessarily for material profit).

That's my little rant/vent about religion. My apologizes if I have offended anyone.
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It's a Cat. I Think
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:52 pm
WELL, there have actually been psychological studies that show that believing in a god is beneficial insofar that people act in more morally acceptable ways.

What is interesting though is that statistically, atheist countries tend to have lower rates of things we ethically deem undesirable, like rape, murder, violent crime, teenage pregnancy, venereal disease, etc. These are far lower in countries like Norway where most people do not believe in God than in a pious country like the US.

It's weird.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:27 pm
Fredo_Corleone wrote:WELL, there have actually been psychological studies that show that believing in a god is beneficial insofar that people act in more morally acceptable ways.

What is interesting though is that statistically, atheist countries tend to have lower rates of things we ethically deem undesirable, like rape, murder, violent crime, teenage pregnancy, venereal disease, etc. These are far lower in countries like Norway where most people do not believe in God than in a pious country like the US.

It's weird.

I think that has less to do with education than religion, honestly. I could be off, but the way I see it the US has a lot of those problems because of how its kids are raised. There's a gun culture, for one thing, leading to high rates of gun crime. So many communities in the country have disparities in wealth, leading to a lack of funds for stability and education (which leads to many of the other problems you just mentioned.) And, being a relatively wealthy country with lots of global influence, many Americans are spoiled brats. And being spoiled can cause a lot of problems in the long-run.

That said, your points are definitely interesting...
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It's a Cat. I Think
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:32 pm
It's not just the US.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:24 am
This thread is AMAZING. Granted it lost some of it's original charm but it still is rather entertaining.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:01 pm
Metalcyanide wrote:Religion (in general) is corrupt, is used as an excuse to kill, and uses to oppress people if they are in the minority.


Uh huh...

Following your logic we should also get rid of:
Facebook
Actresses
Live Concerts
Farting
Cheetos
The Matrix Franchise

I could go on and on. Religion is a tool. How people use it is the problem. Some people use it to better themselves, other people try to twist it into reasons to justify abuse and mistreatment of others. Too many people in this modern day and age vilify religion (especially Christianity) simply because "that is the cool thing to do" and "its silly", often blatantly ignoring the positive impact it has had on society over the last 2,000+ years.

Most of the worlds charity stems from Christian organizations, with about 1.7% (ref: 2008) coming from government and atheist organizations. People need to read and educate themselves. Public schools have a significantly higher rate of sexual abuse, but the iconic figurehead for pedophilia isn't a school teacher, its a Catholic Priest.

I agree with one part of the OPs thread, the title. People do need to see religion differently. Too many people see what they want to see, and intentionally overlook the good it does in some people's lives to vilify it. That doesn't mean I champion religious extremists or those who would use their faith as a justification to hurt others. However, its too easy to say "Everyone from Islam is a bad person" and THAT is what starts wars.

Fredo_Corleone wrote:WELL, there have actually been psychological studies that show that believing in a god is beneficial insofar that people act in more morally acceptable ways.


Don't forget the blind studies published in New Scientist Magazine that showed statistically, people without religious beliefs are 70% more likely to steal if they are put into a situation where they do not think they are being observed. 70% is HUGE!!! Hell, 7% would have been huge, but 70! (although TBH I think it was 68.7% or something, I am going from memory here).

They got SLAMMED for publishing that article, but you can't argue with the results.

You want to talk interesting, people who are vegetarian and vegan are the most common thieves you will encounter. When questioned why they stole, reasons varied, but it ultimately came down to the fact that they felt they deserved it more than the person who had it, and considered themselves more ethical individuals. The human mind might be a battlefield, but its a fascinating place.

Whitly wrote: Christianity, if I remember correctly, argues that people are born with sin, and that it needs to be expedited from our souls in order to go to Heaven.


Sin in Christianity and most Judeo-Christian religions is interesting, because our cultural understanding of SIN and what SIN actually is are two very different animals. Sin is not evil per se, so much as it is a deviation from God. Essentially, breaking the laws the I Am set forth for humanity so they can learn to walk and grow spiritually without being mislead and staggering blindly into self-destruction.

See, evil is sinful, and many evil acts are Sins, but "evil" is not really the classic ideology that we use in modern culture. Ultimately, God is a father trying to teach his son (or daughter) the path to adulthood. Humanity (who are spiritual children) essentially do not know that touching the hot plate is a bad idea and will hurt us. So, rather than letting us get severely hurt, God simply said "Don't do this stupid shit and fuck up your lived."

We can take it a step deeper too if we like, God is essentially a being of energy, pure, and forever. As such, he is unbound by the laws of entropy, unlike the rest of the universe (which specifically is). As such, we have the potential to grow spiritually and through the Holy Spirit (in Christianity) transcend entropy and become immortal. Ever wondered what all of the hoo-har in the bible about ""For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life" was all about? Well, now you know.

The footnotes of Christianity are as follows:
Do as God says because he can see further, has more experience, and knows better than you.
Follow in the footsteps of Jesus to escape entropy and join the Kingdom of Heaven.
Support and Love your fellow man.
Challenge yourself and others to be better people.

The problem is, the way people interpret (or more often, misinterpret) these teachings. So in closing, essentially, "Sin" is a vice or a crime, it does not mean you should be killed, and no man is without sin. It is part of the human experience. We must learn to outgrow it, and shed sin (like Jesus did) so we can break away from this fallen world and join our Creator in a utopia free of disease, hate, and those who would use their free will to condemn or hurt others (or themselves).
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